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I participated in Janice' s *Beyond Chemistry* series in Spring 2004 ... [ and] became engaged in September, 2004! Thanks Janice!
-- Becky[Click here to read more]
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Welcome to the Doctor Love Coach Message Boards!
I invite you to join me and and other members in discussions of just about anything related to dating and relationships.
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h
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Post subject: Do age & IQ differences matter?
 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 - 10:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 16
Status: Offline
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I was in Las Vegas last weekend for an impromptu weekend getaway. While staying at the Bellagio (one of the more exclusive & expensive hotels in town) I was surprised to see the number of couples with a significant age difference. Almost half the men in their 40?s and 50?s were accompanied by women that appeared 20 years and 20 IQ points their junior. While it is possible that these women were professionals (it was Vegas after all) in most cases the women were supporting huge wedding/engagement rings and the couple appeared to be fairly close from their interaction and body language.
Do relationships with such disparities have a long term future? Are the only attractions in such relationships money & power for the women and physical beauty for the men? Is that enough to start and sustain a life-long relationship? And last, but maybe the most important question for an almost 40 year old guy, where does one find such women? Up to this point in my life, I have stuck with professional women within a few years of my own age without much long term success. Seeing what I saw, I am wondering if I am doing it all wrong.
Any thoughts and comments? |
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Janice
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 04, 2004 - 11:13 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Mar 19, 2004
Posts: 228
Location: New York City
Status: Offline
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H said, "Almost half the men in their 40?s and 50?s were accompanied by women that appeared 20 years and 20 IQ points their junior."
I don't know how you can tell someone's IQ just by looking at them, so I'm not going to address that conclusion about the women you observed. But I will say that you may have been concluded erroneously about the alleged age difference. This is because women have a greater interest in keeping their appearance, and avoiding aging, than men. I'm not saying that men don't attend to their appearance at all. But the sales of beauty products to women is huge, around the world, compared to the sales of men's grooming products. That would be my first guess to explain the "discrepancy" in age that you noted.
Secondly, I suggest that you may have mistakenly thought a woman to be younger as a result of her having had (successful) plastic surgery. Being attentive to their appearance (as I described above), women are the biggest consumers of plastic surgical procedures in the U.S., and are known to undergo various procedures at a younger age than men. While I don't have the actual statistics (if there is a plastic surgeon out there reading this, or someone who likes to look up statistics, then please give us the info), men go for plastic surgery, on the average, at an older age than women.
I'm just speculating here based on my observations and experiences with people over the years, and would welcome having my opinions corrected, or confirmed. |
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ck
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 03:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 13, 2004
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Well, dude, I think first you have to lose the preconceived notion that you have that the younger women are necessarily dumber than their older escorts. If you want to have a significant relationship with anyone, younger or closer to your age, you really have to be open minded an not make such rash assumptions about someone based merely on their age or appearance or on any other superficial category. Besides, who's really getting the bum deal here? Who's wearing the fat engagement ring? Who can walk out of the marriage a few years later with a nice fat divorce settlement?
What's really troubling is that you described a rather superficial situation - older wealthy man, trophy woman by his side hanging out in Vegas AND you looked upon that with envy. If I were you I'd ask myself why it is that something like that seems appealing? Why do you want to date someone dumber than you? |
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chrisn
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 13, 2004 - 04:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Posts: 2
Location: Connecticut
Status: Offline
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In my experience, I've found it to be a challenge to date a woman 10 years my junior. I'm 33. So the age difference is less, but we're still talking about women in their 20s.
Most of the challenge I find is that most young-20s women I meet are not as emotionally mature as men in their 30s (or 40s). I don't mean that negatively; neither was I when I was 23. (Or when I was 27, for that matter.) A woman or man at 23 usually doesn?t have the same life experiences, and is likely not looking for the same type of relationship, as a woman or man at 33 or 43. I don't believe that dating people in the same age bracket is a rule; but if you're looking for a successful life partnership, it's not a terrible guideline.
I'm not suggesting that <i>no</i> women in their 20s could have a successful relationship with a man one or two decades older. It <i>has</i> happened. But for any man or woman entering a relationship with such an age difference, I'd recommend caution, if only to examine the reason for the attraction. Is there an honest bond, a sincere emotional chemistry, a true intellectual connection? Or is it just exciting to be able to attract someone so young?
<i>Men's Health</i> did a great article on this not too long ago. I believe it was in 2003, but it may have been in early 2004.
The article was written by a man in his 40s who dates only women in their 20s. The piece definitely had a "how-to" tone that's reflective of <i>MH</i>'s dating articles, but there was also a lot of level-headed "why" in it. While the writer admitted that he saw a physical benefit to dating women in their 20s, he maintained that that was secondary. In fact, he even said that was the most minor of his reasons.
The writer also explained that even though the women he dates are much younger, they're not necessarily less mature than he. That secret, he says, lies in where he finds the women. He claims that women who have pursued graduate or doctorate degrees tend to be more mature by their mid-20s than women who entered the business world immediately after undergrad school. Again, perhaps that generalization is too broad, but it's probably not a terrible guideline. In my case, of all the young-20s women I've met in the past couple years, the only one I felt I could potentially connect with in a healthy long-term relationship happened to have a graduate degree from Harvard.
You asked for opinions, so here's mine:
I don't believe that a relationship can't work just because there's a significant age difference between the partners. That would be almost as ludicrous as believing that a relationship <i>will</i> work just because the partners are the same age.
People are different. What doesn't work for one may work splendidly for another. And the reasons soul mates connect are more likely related to compatible personality traits and parallel life goals rather than generalizations about maturity levels at given ages.
So if a man is curious, even mildly, about whether dating younger women might lead to a more fulfilling relationship than what he's had so far, then I think he should consider trying the one way of finding out for sure. The worst that could happen is it doesn?t work. He'd only be back where he started, but with his question answered.
--Chris |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 14, 2004 - 01:56 AM
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Janice, I'm sorry to say that you sidestepped on this one.
It's well documented that some men experiencing the proverbial mid-life crisis, want to rediscover their "youth" vicariously by attaching themselves to a much younger woman.
As Olympia Ducacus discovered in the movie "Moonstruck," it's a convenient way for a middle-aged man to stare death in the face and laugh. He can figure that if a beautiful, young woman desires him perhaps he's not "old" after all. Of course, he's blinded to the reality that she may in fact be after nothing more than his money, position, and/or stature.
Can such a relationship last? It all depends on whose doing the asking. From an outsiders point of view it would seem that a relationship built on ego (his benefit) and bling (her benefit) is hollow and headed for doom. But if both members of this type of union gain what is of primary importance to them, and each continues to fuel the needs of the other, it would seem that the relationship has as good a chance as success as any other.
Would this relationship work for you, Mr. Las Vegas? I think not.
You seem too relationship savvy to settle for hamburger when you know filet minion is out there waiting for you. There's a metacognitive element to your question that implies too much relationship consciousness. This is a good thing. Don't settle for anything less than you know you deserve.
--Michele |
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ck
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 19, 2004 - 10:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 13, 2004
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Uh... no offense or anything, but Mr. Las Vegas sounds waaaay superficial. He wants younger women because they represent trophies. Women in that position can sense what's going on and should they choose to entertain a relationship with our hapless bachelor, they will extract an appropriate price from him one way or another. American men I find generally lack the subtlety and finesse to have one of these relationships in a way that's satisfying to both parties or at least not so patently based on an exchange of goods and services. That sort of thing is best left to older European men and younger European women - those people really know what they're doing  |
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h
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 22, 2004 - 12:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 16
Status: Offline
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Wow! I seemed to have touched a nerve, for one poster at least! So many points to touch, where to begin...
Let me start with the comments about why I judged the women to be 20 IQ shy of the men. If I do not know a person, I have no way of knowing if they are smart or stupid and if their IQ is closer to their body temperature in Centigrade or Fahrenheit. It would be quite judgmental of me to form an opinion of them based solely on their appearance. On the other hand, the person that they are with most probably has a more informed opinion about the subject. Such attitudes towards one's companions come through in subtle ways in their expressions, body language and general interaction. If you are a keen observer, you can pick up on them by watching from afar, even without the benefit of overhearing the actual conversation. If you are some place alone, would you rather people watch or read a newspaper? And if you are people watching, being a male, you would naturally be drawn to the more attractive females.
On the subject of plastic surgery, I have to admit that that never crossed me mind until pointed out. Could that be the case? It is quite possible. My first thought was that I would most probably have spotted the results of plastic surgery; then I absorbed the meaning of the most important word in the comment: successful. The whole point of successful plastic surgery is to make sure that no one can know that it took place!
On the subject of why I would want such a relationship, I was quite up front in my post as well as its title: What I have tried has not worked, is this different approach feasible? I have tended to date professional women close to may age. That has not worked. Would changing age groups or dropping the intellectual compatibility requirements make for a better relationship? CK: Could it be that what you are reading into it is a manifestation of your own frustrations, insecurities or other issues? On the other hand, I may be reading more into your comments than is really there; it may just be a reading comprehension issue.
And lastly on the subject of trashing all American men, I find that rather superficial of you CK. I suspect that you may be European and considering the possible English comprehension issues, hailing from the mainland. But don't worry. If you are from the mainland, as someone brought up with proper British manners, I will not look down my nose at you. And while I now consider myself to be an American, I will graciously accept your compliment about my knowing what I am doing, or at least what I was doing  Thank you.! |
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Janice
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 26, 2004 - 11:29 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Mar 19, 2004
Posts: 228
Location: New York City
Status: Offline
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I decided to wait a while before posting again because I wanted to see what y'all were thinking. What I've read so far is quite interesting and educational.
Thanks, Michele for setting me straight so that I'm not "sidestepping' this issue." Yes, men would prefer to have filet mignon over hamburger, just as I'm sure women would.
chris n said, "People are different. What doesn't work for one may work splendidly for another. And the reasons soul mates connect are more likely related to compatible personality traits and parallel life goals rather than generalizations about maturity levels at given ages."
For those of you who know me, you know that my husband is almost 12 years older than me. While I don't claim to be any more mature than other women my age, I wouldn't say that my husband is any less mature. When we met, we connected just as chris n. said -- on so many other levels -- parallel life goals to be sure -- that the age difference was irrelevant and undetectable. Do I enjoy the benefit of being with an older, perhaps more successful, man? No, not really, especially since he doesn't really look his age. Does he enjoy the benefits of having a "young, chicky wife?" Yes, but only because I make sure to remind him of it frequently. 
So while I personally don't believe that age differences are all that important and relevant, I have coached singles who have very strong beliefs about the age range in which they will date. And while I challenge them to "think out of the box," I do so only so they'll know that they are making a conscious choice, not a reactive one.
I.Q. and marital compatibility has been studied in the psychological literature for decades, and there are dating websites that cater to the "intellectually elite," such as www.RightStuffDating.com and www.OvereducatedSingles.com. My criteria is pretty simple (and is stated in my "One Minute Quiz to Evaluate a Potential Soulmate"): do you respect the way each other thinks? I think this transcends any I.Q. score or level of education. |
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gordman
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 14, 2007 - 04:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 14, 2007
Posts: 4
Status: Offline
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| Age and IQ differences definitely matters, a strong relationship is build on serious fundamentals. I can't understand these couples but i can tell you these relationships are based on physical attraction or materialist fundamentals which sooner or later will lead to a marriage counselor. |
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